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UP 32 

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1907 COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS, 

Copy 1 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 



HEARING 



ON 



AKTILLEEY BILL 



(H. R 17347). 



HON. WILLIAM H. TAFT, 

SECRETARY OF WAR. 




WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 



V* 



•; 






IAN 17 1907 
D. ofD. 



ARTILLERY OF THE UNITED STATES ARMY. 



Committee on Military Affairs, 

House of Representatives, 
Washington, D. C. January <S, 1907. 
The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 

Present: Messrs. Hull (chairman), Parker. Capron, Young, Kahn, 
Fletcher, Burke, Bradley, Hay, Slayden, and Talbott. 

There were also present Hon. William H. Taft, Secretary of War: 
Gen. J. Franklin Bell, and Brig. Gen. Arthur Murray. 
The committee had under consideration the following bill : 

[H. R. 17347, Fifty-ninth Congress, first session.] 
A BILL To reorganize and to increase the efficiency of the artillery of the United States Army. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and Rouse of Representatives of the Thiitcd States 
of America in Congress assembled. That the artillery of the United States Army 
shall consist of the Chief of Artillery, the Coast Artillery, and the Field Artil- 
lery. The Coast Artillery and the Field Artillery shall he organized as here- 
inafter specified, and the artillery shall belong to the line of the Army: Pro- 
vided. That on and after July first, nineteen hundred and eight, the Chief of 
Artillerv shall cease to exercise supervision over the Field Artillery and shall 
thereafter be designated as the Chief of Coast Artillery. 

Sec. 2. That the Chief of Artillery or Chief of Coast Artillery shall be an ad- 
ditional member cf the General Staff Corps, and his other duties shall be pre- 
scribed by the Secretary cf War. 

When a vacancy occurs in the office of the Chief of Artillery or Chief of 
Coast Artillery the President may appoint to such vacancy, by and with the 
advice and consent of the Senate, an officer selected from the Coast Artillery, 
who shall serve for a period of four years unless reappointed for further 
periods of four years : and anv officer who shall hereafter serve as Chief of 
Artillery or Chief of Coast Artillery shall, when retired, be retired with the 
rank, pay, and allowances authorized by law for a brigadier-general on the 
retired list. The position vacated by an officer appointed Chief of Artillery or 
Chief of Coast Artillery shall be filled bv promotion in that arm according to 
existing law, but the officer thus appointed shall continue in the same lineal 
position in his arm which he would have held if he had not been so appointed; 
and shall be an additional number in the grade from which he was appointed 
or to which he may he promoted : Provided, That there shall not be at any time 
in the Coast Artillery more than one additional officer by reason of the appoint- 
ment cf a Chief of Artillery or Chief of Coast Artillery and the relief of an 
officer from such duty. 

Sec. 3. That the Cca<-d Artillery is the artillery charged with the care and use 
of the fixed and movable elements of land and coast fortifications, including 
the submarine mine and torpedo defenses. 

Sac 4. That the Field Artillery is the artillery which accompanies an army 
in the held, and includes light artillery, horse artillery, siege artillery, and 
mountain artillery. 

Sfc 5. That the Coast Artillery shall constitute a corps, and shall consist of 
ona Chief of Coast Artillery with the rank, pay, and allowances of a brigadier- 
general, as provided in section one of this act; fourteen colonels; fourteen lieu- 
tenant-colonels ; forty-two majors ; two hundred and ten captains ; two hundred 
and ten first lieutenants, and two hundred and ten second lieutenants; and 



4 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

the captains and lieutenants provided for in this section not required for duty 
with companies shall be available for duty as staff officers of the various coast 
artillery commands and for such other details as may be authorized by law 
and regulations; twenty-one sergeants-major with the rank, pay, and allow- 
ances of regimental sergeants-major of infantry ; twenty-six master electricians ; 
sixty engineers ; seventy-four electrician-sergeants, first class ; seventy-four 
electrician-sergeants, second class; forty-two sergeants- inaj or with the rank, 
pay, and allowances of battalion sergeants-major of infantry ; forty-two master 
gunners ; sixty firemen ; one hundred and seventy companies, and fourteen 
bands, organized as now provided for by law for artillery corps bands. 

Sec. 6. That each company of Coast Artillery shall consist of one captain, 
one first lieutenant, one second lieutenant, one first sergeant, one epiarter master- 
sergeant, two cooks, two mechanics, two musicians, and such number of ser- 
geants, corporals, and privates as may be fixed by the President in accordance 
with the requirements of the service to which it may be assigned: Provided, 
That the total number of sergeants and corporals in the Coast Artillery shall 
not exceed one thousand three hundred and sixty and two thousand and forty, 
respectively, and that the total enlisted strength of the Coast Artillery, as pro- 
vided under this act, shall not exceed niueteen thousand one hundred and 
forty-seven, exclusive of master electricians, electrician-sergeants, first class, 
and electrician-sergeants, second class. 

Sec. 7. That the Field Artillery shall consist of six regiments, each organized 
as follows: One colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, two majors, eleven captains, 
thirteen first lieutenants, and thirteen second lieutenants; two veterinarians, 
one sergeant-major, one quartermaster-sergeant, one commissary-sergeant, two 
battalion sergeants-major, two battalion quartermaster-sergeants, two color- 
sergeants, one band, and six batteries organized into two battalions of three 
batteries each. Of the officers herein provided, the captains and lieutenants 
not required for duty with batteries shall be available for detail as regimental 
and battalion staff officers and for such other details as may be authorized by 
law and regulations. Battalion adjutants shall be detailed from the captains, 
and battalion quartermasters and commissaries from lieutenants. Each field 
artillery band shall be organized as provided by law for cavalry bands: Pro- 
vided, That the President in his discretion may increase by nine mounted order- 
lies the regimental strength herein authorized. 

Sec. That each battery of Field Artillery shall consist of one captain, two 
first lieutenants, two second lieutenants, one first sergeant, one quartermaster- 
sergeant, one stable sergeant, one chief mechanic, six sergeants, twelve cor- 
porals, four mechanics, three cooks, two musicians, and one hundred and two 
privates, the commissioned officers to be assigned from among those hereinbe- 
fore authorized for the regiment: Provided, That the President in his discretion 
may increase the number of sergeants in any battery of field artillery to eight, 
the number of corporals to sixteen, the number of mechanics to seven, the num- 
ber of musicians to three, and the number of privates to one hundred and forty- 
nine : Provided further, That nothing contained in this act shall increase the 
total number of enlisted men in the line of the Army, together with the native 
scouts, as authorized by section thirty-six of the act of Congress approved 
February second, nineteen hundred and one, entitled "An act to increase the 
efficiency of the permanent military establishment of the United States.'" 

Sec 9. That on and after the approval of this act the Coast Artillery and the 
Field Artillery shall be permanently separated, the separation to be effected as 
follows : 

All officers in the present Artillery Corps shall remain on one list as regards 
promotion until sufficient promotions shall have been made, as far as the pres- 
ent number of officers permit, to provide in each grade, together with the officers 
remaining therein, the total number of officers of the grade provided for in this 
act for the Coast and Field Artillery combined. After such promotion they shall, 
in each grade, be assigned by the President to the Coast Artillery or to the Field 
Artillery, according to special aptitude and qualifications and agreeably to 
individual preference, so far as may be practicable and fur the good of the serv- 
ice, such assignments to be permanent ; and all officers promoted or appointed in 
the artillery thereafter shall be commissioned as officers of the Coast Artillery or 
the Field Artillery, as the case may be. and shall be promoted by seni -rity in 
their own branch, subject to the provisions of the laws governing promotion in 
the Army at large. 

Sec 10. That all vacancies created or caused by this act which can be filled 
•by promotion of officers now in the Artillery Corps shall be filled by promotion 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 5 

according to seniority, subject to examination as now prescribed by law. Of 
tbe vacancies created or caused by this act which can not be filled by promotion 
of officers now in the Artillery Corps, one-fifth in each branch shall be filled 
in each fiscal year until the total number of officers herein provided for shall 
have been attained. The vacancies remaining in the grade of second lieutenant 
shall be filled by appointment in the following order : First, of graduates of the 
United States Military Academy: second, of enlisted men whose fitness for ad- 
vancement shall have been determined by competitive examination; third, of 
candidates from civil life; and all such appointments shall be made in accord- 
ance with the provisions of existing law. 

Sec. 11. That the regimental and battalion noncommissioned staff officers 
herein authorized for regiments of Field Artillery shall have the pay and allow- 
ances of corresponding grades in the cavalry ; the battalion quartermaster- 
sergeant shall have the pay and allowances of sergeant-major, junior grade, of 
the Artillery Corps; the chief mechanic the pay and allowances of sergeant, 
and the mechanics of Field Artillery the pay and allowances of artificers of 
Field Artillery; engineer, sixty-five dollars a month and allowances of ordnance- 
sergeant ; electrician-sergeant, first class, forty-five dollars a month and allow- 
ances of ordnance-sergeant ; electrician-sergeant, second class, thirty-five dollars 
a month anil allowances of ordnance-sergeant; master gunner, the pay and 
allowances of ordnance-sergeant; fireman, thirty dollars a month and allow- 
ances of ordnance-sergeant; and that the rates of pay of all other enlisted men 
of the Coast and the Field Artillery shall be as now provided by law : Provided, 
That casemate electricians, observers, first class, and plotters shall receive nine 
dollars a month in addition to their pay ; that chief planters, chief loaders, 
observers, second class, gun commanders, and gun pointers shall receive seven 
dollars a month in addition to their pay, and that first-class gunners shall 
receive two dollars a month and second-class gunners one dollar a month in 
addition to their pay: Provided further, That the number of casemate electri- 
cians shall not exceed forty-four; that the number of observers, first class, 
shall not exceed one hundred and seventy; that the number of plotters shall 
not exceed one hundred and seventy; that the number of chief planters shall 
not exceed forty-four ; that the number of chief loaders shall not exceed forty- 
four ; that the number of observers, second class, shall not exceed one hundred 
and seventy ; that the number of gun commanders shall not exceed three hun- 
dred and seventy-eight, and that the number of gun pointers shall not exceed 
three hundred and seventy-eight: And provided further, That no enlisted man 
shall receive under this section more than one addition to his pay. 

Sec. 12. That in addition to the chaplains now authorized for the Artillery 
Corps the President is authorized to appoint, by and with the advice and 
consent of the Senate, and subject to the laws governing appointment of 
chaplains in the Army, one chaplain for each regiment of Field Artillery and 
two for the Coast Artillery, with the rank, pay, and allowances now authorized 
by law for chaplains in the Army. 

Sec, 13. That all laws and parts of laws inconsistent with the provisions of 
this act are hereby repealed. 

The Chairman. Gentlemen of the committee, we have met this 
morning for the purpose of considering the bill H. R. 17347. 

Secretary Taft. Mr. Chairman, I thought you or your secretary 
wrote me that you desired to hear me on the matter of brigade posts. 

The Chairman. No; on the artillery bill. 

Secretary Taft. But I should like to be heard on the brigade 
posts. 

The Chairman. We will hear you on both, but it is the artillery 
bill that we desire to take up and dispose of as soon as possible. 

Secretary Taft. That is the most important bill in the matter of 
legislation that the Army has pending before Congress. T have here 
a statement of General Murray on the subject, which is very com- 
prehensive. 

The Chairman. The committee has heard General Murray, and I 
think the hearing which he attended has been printed. 

Secretary Taft. General Murray's statement contains a great deal 
more than I know or can say on the subject. 



6 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

Gentlemen, the bill contemplates, in round numbers, the increase 
of the Coast Artillery 5,000 men and the increase of the Field Artil- 
lery about a thousand. It is a little less than a thousand for the 
Field Artillery and a little more than 5.000 for the Coast Artillery. 
Its main feature, with respect to the change of organization, is ihat 
it separates the Coast Artillery from the Field Artillery. Under 
modern conditions the Coast Artillery and the Field Artillery ought 
not to be united. The Field Artillery is part of the mobile army, 
composed of the light artillery, siege guns, and mountain batteries, 
which are supposed to move with infantry and cavalry. The Coast 
Artillery in some countries — like France — is really made part of the 
marine force, but not all of it. There are modern coast batteries in 
France that are manned by sailors. 

The practical difficulties with reference to the two, or the mainte- 
nance of the two together, are really very great. In the matter of 
the examination of officers, for instance, the Coast Artillery requires 
a different kind of preparation from that of the Field Artillery. 
The truth is that there is quite as great a difference between the 
large guns of the Coast Artillery and the lighter guns of the Field 
Artillery as there is between the lighter guns of the Field Artillery 
and the Springfield rifles of the infantry or cavalry. 

The statement was made that in order to man all the Coast Artil- 
lery with a full equipment — one shift, so to speak — requires something 
over 45,000 men, but of course that is not a fair statement; we do 
not need that force in time of peace. General Murray has proposed 
for adoption a system of concentration of posts with a view to the 
training of a smaller body of men to manage all the guns in the 
batteries surrounding that central post, and he is of opinion, and I 
have no doubt correctly, that there are a great many, or quite a large 
element, in that 45,000 that could be improvised, so to speak; I mean 
haulers of ammunition and a great many men who do not do the 
electrical work and the work that calls for high skill. So that the 
Statement that we need so large a body of men to man all the guns 
may be misleading, when accompanied by the statement that in 
order to man the guns it needs a high degree of skill and experience. 
It does with respect to a great many of the employees, but not all. 
Nevertheless, it is of the greatest importance that we should have a 
force sufficiently large that we could train the men as to each battery 
and the management of the guns and the ranges as to each battery. 

It goes without saying that if we are going to spend a great many 
millions of dollars — and we have already spent about $70,000,000 — 
to make our coast defenses what they ought to be — and they are not 
yet what they ought to be — we are very foolish not to get a force 
together which, in time of war, might be rapidly expanded into a 
force which would be able to make those coast defenses effective. 

The field artillery has become more and more important in the 
make-up of an army. The experiences in the Russian-Japanese war. 
and the possibility of using a regiment or a brigade of artillery in 
such a way as to have what they call indirect fire, making it very 
destructive, and putting it in such a situation as to avoid attack, 
make the development of that branch exceedingly important. We 
are now arranging the posts with a view to having the regiments of 
artillery together, and this bill provides for the regimental organiza- 
tion of Field Artillery. It ought to be adopted because that is the 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 7 

modern and accepted method. It provides also for increased pay 
for some of the skilled enlisted men. The very great difficulty that 
we have in recruiting men for this service — and the promptness 
with which they leave the service after a term in order to receive 
$75 or $100 a month because of the training which they have re- 
ceived—indicates that we must make the positions more desirable 
and that we should retain those who, by our efforts, have been made 
skilled for the purpose for which they were enlisted. 

I think, Mr. Chairman, that that comprehends generally the state- 
ment in favor of the bill. 

The Chairman. Why can not the Chief of Artillery exercise super- 
vision over both branches of the service? 

Secretary Taft. I suppose he could, but if you would make them 
different corps there would be no point in his doing so, and it would 
be better, it seems to me, to concentrate his attention on the Coast. 
Artillery. We have no particular chief for the infantry ; we have no 
particular chief for the cavalry, and under this system the light artil- 
lery is simply another branch of the mobile army. There would be 
quite enough for him to do in managing the Coast Artillery. Then, 
too, if you separate them the chief ought to be promoted from the 
officers of the Coast Artillery, because they are the ones who are 
familiar with the needs of that service, and it is so separate a branch 
substantially that I do not think it is necessary to bother him with 
the control of a body of men that are of the line and under line 
officers, and ought to be. 

The Chairman (reading) : 

When a vacancy occurs in the office of the Chief of Artillery or Chief of 
Coast Artillery the President may appoint to such vacancy, by and with the 
advice and consent of the Senate, an officer selected from the Coast Artillery, 
who shall serve for a period of four years unless reappointed for further periods 
of four years, etc. 

That is simply intended to cover the man that is in before the 
separation ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; I presume that is so. 

The Chairman. It reads as though there are to be two chiefs of 
artillery — that is, you may take it that way. 

Secretary Taft. The bill was elaborately drawn to prevent — it may 
not have succeeded — but it was elaborately drawn to prevent having 
two chiefs, and to make the succession from the Chief of Artillery 
to the Chief of Coast Artillery take place at the time when the two 
corps were to separate. 

There is another subject that I have not mentioned and which calls 
for attention, and that is the very important torpedo practice. I 
think General Murray counts on the use of these new men for the 
torpedo work as possibly more important even than the management 
of the guns themselves, for they have to be trained particularly for 
torpedo work and submarine work. 

The Chairman. How many regiments not organized as regiments, 
but how 7 many regiments would the present organization of artillery 
create ? 

Secretary Taft. There are 126 Coast Artillery companies and there 
are 30 batteries of light artillery. 

The Chairman. That makes 156 altogether. 

Secretary Taft. One hundred and fifty-six ; yes, sir. 



8 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

The Chairman. I am speaking of the number of companies; how 
many regimental organizations would there be if all of them 
were 

Secretary Taft. Twelve to a regiment. 

Mr. Slayden. That would be ten and a half regiments of Coast 
Artillery ? 

Mr. Hay. It would be more than that. 

General Murray. The present organization is 13; it is on the basis 
of 13 regiments. 

Mr. Slayden. There would be three regiments of Field Artillery; 
that would be thirteen and a half. 

Secretary Taft. There are five regiments. It is 109 to the regi- 
ment. 

The Chairman. It increases the artillery seven regiments in the 
regimental organization? 

Secretary Taft. No, six regiments. It is one regiment of light 
artillery; 993 men of the light artillery, and 5,093 of the Coast Ar- 
tillery. 

The Chairman. You have 14 colonels and 14 lieutenant-colonels, 
and I assume that you have the minor officers to correspond with 
them ? 

General Murray. That is in the proposed bill. It proposes to 
have the equivalent of 14 regiments of Coast Artillery and 6 regi- 
ments of Field Artillery. 

The Chairman. That makes 20 regiments in all, as against 13 as 
now constituted? 

General Murray. Yes, sir: as now constituted, it would be the 
equivalent of 13. 

The Chairman. So it would be an increase of 7 regiments? 

General Murray. Yes, sir; one for the Field Artillery and 

The Chairman In other words, you give the Coast Artillery one 
regiment more than the entire corps has now. Now, is it proposed 
if this bill passes to at once commission the officers for all of those 
regiments ? 

Secretary Taft. Section 9 of the bill provides as follows : 

All officers in the present artillery corps shall remain on one list as regards 
promotion until sufficient promotions shall have been made, as far as the 
present number of officers permit, to provide in each grade, together with the 
officers remaining therein, the total number of officers of the grade provided 
for in this act for the Coast and Field Artillery combined. 

The Chairman. That is, you promote them right up to what this 
law authorizes? 

Secretar}?" Taft. Yes, sir. The same section continues as follows: 

After such promotion they shall, in each grade, be assigned by the President 
to the Coast Artillery or to the Field Artillery, according to special aptitude 
and qualifications, and agreeably to individual preference, so far as may 
be practicable and for the good of the service, such assignments to be perma- 
nent ; and all officers promoted or appointed in the artillery thereafter shall 
be commissioned as officers of the Coast Artillery or the Field Artillery, as the 
case may be, and shall be promoted by seniority in their own branch, subject 
to the provisions of the laws governing the promotion in the Army at large. 

The Chairman. Right on that point, Mr. Secretary— that pro- 
vides for the immediate promotion of all the men — the number that 
is authorized by this bill? 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 9 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You are about 5,000 short in the artillery now, 
are you not ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That would make them short of the enlisted 
men 



Secretary Taft. It is not quite so large. 

The Chairman. The effect of this bill would be to at once create a 
very large corps of officers by promotion and filling in, as provided 
at the bottom of the next section, before the men are enlisted at all. 

Secretary Taft. We would go ahead with the enlistment of the 
new organization right away, and we would need the officers for the 
new organization. 

The Chairman. If you can enlist them ; but you could fill up the 
entire officers if you did not succeed in getting the present number 
authorized by law. 

Secretary Taft. I suppose what they would do would be to trans- 
fer the old men to make up the new organization and transfer the 
men out of the new organization. 

The Chairman. Just skeletonize all of them. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

General Murrav. In other words, we would take the trained men 
out of our present organization. Say now we have the equivalent of 
13 regiments for both the Field and the Coast Artillery. The Field 
Artillery amounts to 5 regiments, so that would leave us 8 regi- 
ments of Coast Artillery, as the equivalent of 8 regiments as at 
present organized. We propose to increase that by regiments of 
Coast Artillery. Now, then, with those new regiments we would of 
course take as the basis of the different new organizations — which 
are 44 companies — our trained men from the companies we already 
have and then recruit in those companies with these trained men as 
the basis of each new and separate organization. It would be the same 
with the Field Artillery. You would have to do the same thing with 
your one extra regiment created under the bill — you would have to 
make your basis from the old men that you now have and then re- 
cruit up. 

Mr. Young. Your purpose, then, is to have some trained men in 
each organization ? 

General Murray. We would do that at once, as was done when we 
increased from five to seven regiments in 1808. 

Mr. Hay. As I understand it, the artillery is now 5,000 short. 

General Murrat. About 3,000 short. 

Mr. Hay. What assurances have we that you will be able to fill 
up those commands which are proposed to be provided for in this 
bill — what provision of the bill will make men enlist ? 

Secretary Taft. You increase the pay, to begin with. 

Mr. Hay. How much? 

General Murray. It is not a question exactly of increased pay. 
We first make 44 new organizations, which would give us so many 
noncommissioned officers who have increased pay over the ordinary 
private. There would be 44 new organizations, and in addition to 
that the increase under the bill is $55 per company, which gives us 
about 10 men per company with increased pay over what they now 7 
have. So that I would hope 



10 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

Mr. Hay. Fifty-five dollars per year or $55 per month? 

General Murray. Fifty-five dollars per month per company. 

Mr. Parker. Making about $84 per annum per man; I mean 
skillful men. 

General Murray. Some of them will have the $7 a month increase; 
you would have to look at your bill to get at exactly what that would 
be. But with these new organizations I would, of course, be taking 
my old men in. I would make my start there, and then with the in- 
creased pay I believe we would have no trouble in bringing up our 
new organization of 44 certainly to the percentage that we now have, 
and I also believe that with that extra pay of $55 per company we 
could increase the strength all along the line, say, from 10 to 15 per 
cent. In other words, while we now have an actual strength of 
about 70 per cent, I believe we could run it up all along the line, with 
the increased pay and with the new organization, to somewhere be- 
tween 80 and 90 per cent. 

Mr. Slayden. I do not quite understand your statement there. 
You say you are going to increase the pay $55 per company ? 

General Murray. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Slayden. Does that mean that there will be $55 each month 
additional pay to each member in the organization? 

General Murray. A certain number of men in each company will 
receive increased pay. 

Mr. Slayden. To that amount? 

General Murray. Not each one, but the sum total of all in the com- 
pany is $55. 

Mr. Kahn. That is set forth in section 11 of the bill, on page 7. 

General Murray. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Secretaiy, getting back to the proposition that 
I was referring to, if this bill should pass as it is you would imme- 
diately have an increase of 357 noncommissioned officers? 

Secretary Taft, Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Including promotions '. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And if 3^011 did not secure any more men, you 
would simply be increasing the officers without getting any increase 
in the Army ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; which would not be a bad thing. 

The Chairman. Why would it not be well to insert a proviso that 
the officers should not be commissioned except as the organizations 
are recruited ? 

Secretary Taft. If you prefer that, very well. I am very anxious 
to have the additional officers at any rate. What I mean is, I think 
you would find if you increased the organization that you would in- 
crease the recruiting — I mean as to the separate organizations. 

The Chairman. Is not the question of extra pay for certain non- 
commissioned officers in a separate bill generally ? 

General Murray. It is all in this bill. 

Mr. Kahn. It is contained in section 11. 

Mr. Parker. Mr. Secretary, as I understand it, the total number 
being increased from 13 to 20, is practically an increase of a little 
over one-half throughout the whole artillery, and an increase of the 
Coast Artillery. 

Secretary Taft. A little over half. 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 11 

Mr. Parker. The whole force of artillery is increased by a little 
over half? 

Secretary Taft. Yes; about 50 per cent. 

Mr. Parker. The Coast Artillery being increased from 8 to 14 is 
an increase of 75 per cent. 

Secretary Taft. It is an increase from 8 to 13. 

Mr. Parker. General Murray said 14. 

Secretary Taft. It is 14,000 in the Coast Artillery, and you increase 
it 5,000 men. That does not make it 50 per cent. 

The Chairman. It increases the regimental organizations. 

Secretary Taft. I am speaking of men and officers too. 

The Chairman. This increase of the entire organization of com- 
missioned and noncommissioned officers amounts to 7 additional regi- 
ments of artillery. Now, as to the number of men, it is purely a ques- 
tion of how many men you put in a company. 

Secretary Taft. My calculation makes it 6, it seems to me, since *I 
have gone over the matter ; it is from 14 to 20. 

The Chairman. It is from 13 to 20, Mr. Secretary. You have 13 
now. 

Secretary Taft. They have that number of colonels, but I do not 
think they will have that number of regiments. 

Mr. Parker. There are 357 new officers. How many officers are 
there now in the corps ? 

Secretary Taft. There is an increase of 296 officers, excluding 
chaplains. 

Mr. Parker. How many are there now? 

Secretary Taft. There are 663, including 12 chaplains. That is 
650 increased by 206. 

The Chairman. There are 356 now, excluding chaplains. Are 
there 51 officers now to an organization without the chaplain? How 
is that, General Bell? Are there not 51 officers now to a regiment? 

General Bell. There are 51, including the chaplain. 

Mr. Parker. When was the last increase made in the artillery — 
how many years ago? 

General Murray. In 1001. 

Mr. Parker. How many officers were there in the corps before 
that? 

Secretary Taft. This change was made on March 2, 1901, and 
provided for 651 officers. 

The Chairman. Five regiments. 

Mr. Parker. How many were there before that? 

General Murray. There were 7 regiments of Coast Artillery be- 
fore that time, and it was increased from 7 in 1901 to the equip- 
ment of 13 regiments. At that time there were made 14 colonels 
of artillery, one of whom should be the chief of artillery. Later 
that chief of artillery was given the rank of brigadier-general, 
and the provision was made that he should not be included in 
the colonels, and that the number of colonels should thereafter be 
reduced to 13. So as it now stands there are the equivalent of 13 
regiments in the artillery. The proposed bill — though it provides 
that we shall get the equivalent of 14 regiments in the Coast Artillery 
and 6 in the Field Artillery — provides for the regimental organiza- 
tion only for the Field Artillery. We simply get the equivalent in the 
Coast Artillery to give a corps organization. 



12 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

Mr. Parker. Did the increase of 1901 give an extra rank by 
promotion, or extra promotion to officers of artillery, so that they 
are on the whole any more promoted than any other branch of the 
service ? 

Secretary Taft. I think they have an advantage in that respect; 
I think they then had. 

Mr. Parker. And they now under this bill would have a probable 
advantage ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; that is a poetic justice that perhaps is 
not done to the same individuals; but there were twenty-five years 
in the artillery when there was not any advancement at all for the 
officers. 

Mr. Parker. I understand that it was very bad for the lieutenants 
in the year 1890. I know that there were some first lieutenants who 
had served in the civil war and who never received advancement. 

• Secretary Taft. There was one general who retired as a brigadier- 
general; he was a major — I think Major Davis — who had a son in 
the cavalry or infantry, and the question was whether the son should 
beat him to his majority, and I think he got ahead of his son by a 
few days. That was notorious all through the service. 

Mr. Parker. It is well known that when you make any very sud- 
den enlargement of an army and promote young men — quite young 
men — instead of getting the older men into the higher grades, so 
that the younger men get into the higher grades, it makes what is 
called kt hump," so that nobody gets a promotion for a great many 
years. 

Secretary Taft. l es, sir. 

Mr. Parker. Is there not a likelihood of such a " hump " — I do not 
know that I should use that word — but such a stoppage of promotion 
in the artillery, even under its present organization, and would not an 
enlargement of this sort, which promotes the younger officers to the 
higher grades, be likely to create a great deal more such stoppage? 

Secretary Taft. This increase will postpone the ''hump'' a little 
further — put it back. By that time we may be asking for further 
relief. But there was a provision in this bill or one of the bills 
introduced by which cavalry and infantry officers, I think, were 
given an opportunity to go into the artillery. 

The Chairman. Yes; both artillery and cavalry. The lieuten- 
ants, I think. 

Secretary Taft. Captains, too, I think. 

The Chairman. I do not remember about captains; possibly you 
are right. 

Mr. Hay. This increase of artillery will really operate as an in- 
crease of the Army, will it not? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; of course it will not increase the maxi- 
mum to which the President can increase the Army — that is, he has 
that very shadowy power to increase the Army which depends upon 
an appropriation from Congress to meet it. 

Mr. Hay. But do I understand you that under the operation of this 
bill he can not increase the Army bej^ond 100,000? 

Secretary Taft. No, sir. 

The Chairman. This includes the Regular Army. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; and it includes also the scouts of the 
Philippines. 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 13 

General Murray. If you will allow me a moment, I will say that 
under the present status, taking the maximum allowed for the differ- 
ent organizations — cavalry, artillery, engineers, naval scouts, etc. — 
the total of the different maxima is 106,542. Each may be increased 
to its maximum as given in that total, but the President can not 
increase the maximum for the total Army over 100,000 men. 

Secretary Taft. It is provided in the bill : 

That nothing contained in this act shall increase the total number of enlisted 
men in the line of the Army, together with the native scouts, as authorized by- 
section thirty-six of the act of Congress approved February second, nineteen 
hundred and one, entitled "An act to increase the efficiency of the permanent 
military establishment of the United States. 

Mr. Hay. If the President in time of war were to increase the 
Army to the extent that the act of March, 1901, authorizes him to do, 
he could put each different army of cavalry or infantry and the 
artillery up to the full. 

Secretary Taft. No, sir; he could not, because it is subject to this 
proviso. He could increase any of them so long as he did not in- 
crease the total beyond 100,000. 

Mr. Slayden. To a certain extent, then, it would be necessary to 
continue them in a skeletonized condition? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; some branch, whether the artillery, the 
cavalry, or the infantry. As to the limitation, I spoke merely from 
recollection; when the bill was drafted I knew that that was in it, 
and I find it here. 

Mr. Parker. Mr. Secretary, I forgot one matter about which I 
wish to inquire. At the last increase you were forced to take a good 
many untrained young men from civil life, were you not? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Parker. Would this increase force the same condition? 

Secretary Taft. Probabl}\ 

Mr. Parker. So that there would be a large number of young offi- 
cers coming into the artillery from civil life to fill up the ranks. 
Could you not avoid that by making the increase more gradual than 
is provided for in this bill ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; you could. 

Mr. Parker. By making it dependent upon the recruiting of the 
men \ 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; you could. I had forgotten one thing. 
The lieutenants to fill up are to be distributed over five years, so that 
would avoid the danger you point out. 

The Chairman. Where is that in this bill ? 

Secretary Taft. Section 10. 

Mr. Parker. Could not the difficult}' be also avoided somewhat by 
making it easier to transfer men from one branch of the service to 
the other — good officers retaining their rank ? 

Secretary Taft. Well, you could do that if you wanted to impose 
the difficulty of making the selection on the Secretary of War or on 
the General Staff, from the other branches, or by competitive exami- 
nation, as they do in the Ordnance Department. 

Mr. Slayden. If we did not make an increase in the Artillery 
Corps, the Coast Artillery particularly, would it not be wise for us to 
discontinue the coast-defense programme as originally mapped out by 
the Endicott board and continue under the present one? 



14 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

Secretary Taft. Well, I do not like to say that it is wise from the 
standpoint of policy, for the policy that I reel is necessary for us at 
the Department is to get everything we can, because we know we need 
it all. If we get more fortifications, we know ultimately you will 
have to put in the men to man them, and therefore we would not like 
to say we ought to give up. 

Mr. Slayden. Let me put it in another way. If we continue the 
coast-defense programme, the erection of Texas fortifications, and 
the displacement of those great and expensive guns and things of 
that kind, is it not necessary, in the interest of economy as well as 
the rules of common sense, to provide enough men to take care of 
them and man them? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; I have no hesitation in saying that. It 
seems to me imperative. 

The Chairman. I suppose if I get an idea in my head it is a 
hard thing to get it out — I do not get enough of them to crowd 
each other out — but coming back to this matter of separation, the 
whole theory of our legislation since the Spanish war has been to 
make all of our officers trained men in as large a degree as Ave could. 
The detail system was to give them training in different lines so that 
they would be valuable wherever you put them. The Coast and 
Field Artillery are separate services, although nearer alike than any 
other two services, and if you could separate a regimental organiza- 
tion — and you practically have a regimental organization now — by 
making them by Executive order, we should, I imagine, by law pro- 
vide for at least six regiments of them. What I want to get at is 
why is not the Chief of Ordnance, who must have more general 
knowledge of field guns than the infantry or cavalry generals, the 
best man to have charge of it all? 

Secretary Taft. Mr. Chairman, I should be inclined to question 
that policy. It is true you do detail from the line to the staff 
corps, because an artilleryman or an infantryman or a cavalryman 
ought to know something about the Quartermaster-General's business, 
and possibly something about the Signal Corps, but it is not true- 
that you transfer infantrymen to the cavalry, or detail them for 
that purpose, and when you consider the light artillery as nothing 
but a branch of the mobile army — exactly as the cavalry and the 
infantry are — then it seems to me that the principle that you suggest 
does not apply. 

The Chairman. Let me put another question 

Secretary Taft. The truth is, if you will allow me to say so, 
that the subjects on which the officers are examined — and that, after 
all, determines what they ought to know — are very different in some 
important branches, such as the Coast Artillery, the light artillery, 
and the Field Artillery, and it is really not fair to a man who is 
fitted for the light artillery, and who is devoting his whole atten- 
tion to acquiring a knowledge of that branch of the service — and there 
are no officers in the Army who are more enthusiastic than the officers 
of the Field Artillery — to compel him to go down to Fortress Monroe 
and sit down for six months and cram up on a lot of subjects that he 
does not need as a field officer, merely in order to get promoted. It 
seems to me it is a waste of effort. 

The Chairman. What I was getting at is why the light artillery — 
which is part of the mobile army, with the new arrangements of fire 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 15 

control, range firing, and all that adopted for the Field Artillery, as 
well as for the other — is not in point of detail the same. 

Secretary Taft. It is something of the same, but if you will exam- 
ine the subject of the examination you will find that they are quite 
different. The Coast Artillery ought to be made familiar witli tor- 
pedo and submarine work, with which the Field Artillery has 
nothing whatever to do. 

The Chairman. That does not apply to the Field Artillery, of 
course ? 

Secretary Taft. No, sir. 

The Chairman. The Field Artillery would not have anything of 
that kind. 

Secretary Taft. No, sir. 

The Chairman. But as to the guns, the fire control, the calcula- 
tion as to the angle that should be mapped out, it is pretty near the 
same in detail ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. I suppose they are rather more pro- 
found, if I may use that expression, in the Coast Artillery than they 
are in the Field Artillery with respect to such matters. Then, on the 
other hand, you ought to consider, it seems to me, that these field 
artillerymen are cavalrymen in a sense. They have to learn — and it 
is a very technical subject — the drill of a battery of Field Artillery, 
and why should the coast artillerymen be subjected to an examination 
on equitation or in a drill that is required with a light gun ? 

The Chairman. My understanding is that the young, active boys 
are all in favor of doing away with the regimental organization on 
'the general theory that in the Field Artillery the officers should 
largely consist of active young fellows, who, as they grow older, 
would be transferred. A man who gets old and fat does not care 
about riding horses. [Laughter.] 

Secretary Taft. It is better for him if he does. 

Mr. Slayden. According to this bill, promotion in these two 
branches of the Army is restricted to each particular corps, is it not ? 

Secretary Taft. It is, after the effect of the promotion has been 
distributed between the two branches. 

Mr. Slayden. Then a coast artilleryman must have his promotion 
in the Coast Artillery — he must be promoted from service ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, after the present increase in promotion has 
been distributed between the men who will form subsequently the 
two corps. 

Mr. Slayden. I had in mind an idea which you very largely 
covered just now, namely, that while dissimilar, there is still such 
relationship between the two branches of the service that there might 
be detail from one to the other, and promotion from one to the 
other, but I see the bill provides against that. 

Mr. Hay. Mr. Chairman, as I understand your point, it is as to 
the Chief or Artillery? 

The Chairman. Yes; that he would be a better man to command 
the Field Artillery than any other man in the service. 

Mr. Hay. The point is not as to artillery officers themselves, but 
as to whether or not this Chief of Artillery should command a whole 
artillery corps, including the Field Artillery. 

The Chairman. That was the proposition, but I was going to 
follow it up with another one. If that is true, is it not better to 



16 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL.. 

create the two branches and organize this regiment, and let the 
administration transfer officers back and forth as they believe for 
the betterment of the service ? 

Secretary Taft. That can be done. 

The Chairman. It can not be done under this bill except by 
their arranging their own transfers among each other. 

Secretary Taft. I believe I have the power to transfer a man from 
the infantry to the cavalry if I choose. 

The Chairman. Whether he wants to be transferred or not? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir ; I think I have. 

The Chairman. I thought they had to arrange their own transfers. 

General Bell. It can be done on mutual application. 

The Chairman. Do I understand that it has been done without 
application ? 

General Bell. Yes, sir; a very fleshy man has been transferred 
from the infantry to the cavalry. 

The Chairman. I thought that had to be arranged by the officers 
themselves. 

Secretary Taft. It is a regulation of the Department. 

The Chairman. There is nothing in the bill separating the two 
corps that looks to the creation of another brigadier-general, is there? 

Secretary Taft. No, sir ; we have enough of them. 

The Chairman. I understand that you have quite hard work to 
keep them employed. 

Secretary Taft. I am going to employ them, and not as territorial 
satraps, either. 

The Chairman. Gentlemen, are there any other questions that you 
desire to ask with regard to this artillery matter. General Bell, do 
you desire to say anything with regard to this artillery matter? 

General Bell. No, sir. 

brigade posts. 

The Chairman. Mr. Secretary, you said that you wanted to be 
heard on the matter of brigade posts. If so, we would be glad to 
hear you. 

Secretary Taft. I understand that there is an amendment in the 
military bill which provides that there shall be no buildings put up 
at brigade posts without authority of Congress. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Secretary Taft. I would like to have, first, a definition of what a 
brigade post is. 

The Chairman. I suppose a brigade post is where you are concen- 
trating enough troops to make a brigade. 

Secretary Taft. I know, but they have not been concentrated. 

The Chairman. But you propose in your estimates to do it. 

Secretary Taft. But they have not been. 

The Chairman. That is the reason we thought we would put it in 
the bill so we could see where we were going. 

Secretary Taft. I want to be perfectly frank about it, because, as 
the law is now, as I read it, there would not be any limitation at all 
in this proviso. 

The Chairman. Then it will not do any harm. 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 17 

Secretary Taft. Perhaps not, if you understand it that way. 

Mr. Hay. What is the law now ? 

Secretary Taft. There is, as a matter of fact, no law about a 
brigade post at all. 

Mr. Slayden. There is no such entity? 

Secretary Taft. No, sir; there is no form of a brigade in a post 
now. 

Mr. Parker. It will not amount to anything unless we say that no 
buildings shall be put near the post except for the accommodation 
of a regiment. 

Secretary Taft. Yes; and I suppose you would not want to say 
that where there is more than a regiment, and I rather think it 
would be unwise even if you put in for the purpose of creating a bri- 
gade post. 

The Chairman. One reason why we have put this in is that we 
have had before this committee repeatedly propositions for the pur- 
chase of land to create posts. It is a question of legislation that does 
not belong to any appropriation bill. This year in the estimates 
submitted for the sundry civil bill there is an appropriation for the 
purchase of land amounting to between two and three million dol- 
lars. Of course we are not going to let the Committee on Appropria- 
tions have that; we are going to retain jurisdiction of that because 
it properly belongs to this committee. 

As to the question of where we want large posts, we have a law 
now that you can not establish a new post except by authority of 
Congress. That was passed because the Department, under the 
former administration, went down into Chattanooga and borrowed 
some money of a board there that had charge of a reservation, and 
bought land and put up a post without any authority of Congress, 
and in order to keep a popular official from getting in a bad box 
we allowed that to be reimbursed to him on the sundry civil bill. 

Secretary Taft. Of course the purchase of land is amatter that 
comes up distinctly for a particular purpose, I agree, and I had sup- 
posed that where that was under consideration the question as to 
whether there should be a large post would necessarily be presented, 
because we have no authority to buy land, except in the Coast Artil- 
lery matters, out of any general fund ; but to restrict the Department 
in the expenditure of the barracks and quarters appropriation from 
putting up a building that may be needed because it is contemplated 
some time in the future to make it a brigade post, it seems to me, is 
attempting to restrict the Department in a very injurious way. 

The Chairman. Let me give you another illustration. I will 
state an instance in Arizona. A few years ago the War Depart- 
ment issued an order to abandon Fort Whipple. The Atchison, 
Topeka and Santa Fe road came down here in force, and they re- 
scinded their order. It was undoubtedly proposed to abandon it 
because it was not needed, and it was an expense. Xow it is pro- 
posed to retain it. 

Secretary Taft. All I have to nay about that is that it is not alone 
the railroads that come down to prevent the abandonment of posts 
and the difficulty of working out a system by which we shall have 
the posts in such a way as to make the Army efficient, is very great. 

The Chairman. I understand that. 

art— 07 2 



18 HEAEING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

Secretary Taft. And I hope that the War Department will be 
given as much discretion as possible to enable it to, in a quiet way, 
avoid the effect of influence on the maintenance of posts that are 
unnecessary or ought to be abandoned, and I will do it, if you will 
give me the opportunity. It arouses feeling everytime, I agree, but 
to impose further restrictions is only to more greatly hamper the 
Department, and is likely to prompt us to continue the maintenance 
of posts that ought to be abandoned. 

Mr. Slayden. The policy which you have in view, generally speak- 
ing, is one which will make for economy of administration as well 
as the promotion of efficiency? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; it will promote efficiency in the Army. 
There is from 22 to 23 per cent of posts that will have to be rebuilt. 
There is no idea of abandoning any regimental posts at all. Every 
regimental post is so much larger than many of the other posts that 
they will always be maintained, but it has been hoped that if this 
appropriation is made — and nearly one-fourth of the posts will 
have to be rebuilt — we might expend that money out of the barracks 
and quarters fund in concentrating the Army in a few large posts, 
and that distribution would represent from ten to twelve thousand 
men. If we could get three or four or five brigade posts by the use 
of this amount of abandonment of the posts that I refer to that need 
rebuilding or abandonment, it would greatly facilitate the drill of 
the Army, and we would put into control the brigadier-generals who 
ought be taught how men in larger units than regiments can be 
drilled and handled. 

The Chairman. Now, going back to this question, and reciting a 
little more history that has taken place since I have been on this 
committee, when Lamont was Secretary of War and Merritt was on 
the active list they had quite a hearing before this committee— I do 
not know whether it was taken down stenographically, Mr. Outh- 
waite was chairman — in which he made a very effective argument 
in favor of the abandonment of smaller posts and the establishment 
of regimental posts, trying to give one to each State as far as. they 
would go, with the idea of accomplishing three things, first, to give 
the children the benefit of good schools ; secondly, economy in saving 
transportation of supplies to distant posts on the frontier that were 
not longer needed, and, thirdly, the benefit to the Army of having 
regimental organizations. Now, we have gone on since that time 
and, I think, expended between $50,000,000 and $60,000,000 in the 
erection of posts. I think we have expended about $50,000,000 since 
the Spanish war in the erection of barracks and quarters. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, if we propose to go on and put up large 
buildings and concentrate brigades at five or six places, w r ould you 
need a very large area for quarters for your Army? 

Secretary Taft. No, sir 

The Chairman. Have you not to-day quarters enough for all of 
our Army that is in the United States, even bringing back those 
that are in Cuba, and more too? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; but take, for instance, the quarters at 
the Presidio of Monterey; there are quarters there for a regiment, 
but they are temporary; they will have to be rebuilt, and you will 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 19 

have to go on spending money to rebuild at least a quarter — not 
quite a quarter — of the posts that you have in the United States. 

Now, what I am urging is that that new construction shall be put 
in posts where we can have larger divisions of the Army together. 
I agree that it would be better, if we could, to distribute those posts 
over the United States with reference to the States geographically, but 
the trouble is that the Army is a system and the army posts consti- 
tute a system which have been affected by the history of the country. 
A great many of those posts have been put out in the West because 
of the Indian warfares. The smaller posts were strategically ar- 
ranged, as well as the larger posts in the neighborhood. So you 
have in Kansas, without an}^ intervention of the men who are inter- 
ested in Kansas at all, two of the largest posts in the Army. Now, 
it is a great deal easier to make them brigade posts, and, with the 
easy communication of railroads, it is a great deal easier to make 
them brigade posts and a great deal less expensive than it is to 
establish a post at, say, Oglethorpe, or in the East, where the land 
costs so much more — and you need a very large tract of land for a 
brigade post. 

Mr. Parker. Is there not another way, which is to maintain the 
Army during nine months of the year at regimental posts and pos- 
sibly three months in the summer for brigade maneuvers? Is not 
that the policy? And to have the Army, when they go in brigades, 
altogether under tents ? Is that not a policy which has been adopted 
almost altogether by the German army? 

Secretary Taft. It is another way, but it is not so good a way. 
It is a way that we shall, of course, adopt if we can not pursue the 
other. 

Mr. Parker. Does it not give the colonel a great deal more con- 
trol over his regiment during most of the year, and really give bet- 
ter work in the field when it is altogether under canvas than other- 
wise? 

Secretary Taft. For three months it does, but not for nine months. 
In the matter of hospitals, for instance, I was particularly careful 
to go over the matter with the Surgeon-General with instructions 
not to allow the expenditures at posts where it was not likely we were 
going to continue the posts or to expend money which would be 
thrown away, if the plan we have suggested should be carried out. 
There are only four brigade posts that would be possible now with- 
out an express act of Congress, namely, San Antonio, Leavenworth, 
Riley, and D. A. Russell. There are no others that could be made 
into brigade posts without express sanction of Congress. If what 
you intended is to be construed in the spirit in which it was passed, 
it would prevent the erection of the smallest buildings at either of 
those posts, no matter how necessary, though not for the purpose of 
making it a brigade post, but simply for the purpose of arranging 
for what is needed for the troops that are there now. It seems to me 
the proviso, if it carried out the purpose for which it was introduced— 
that is, if it effected the purpose — would be quite injurious, and, 
secondly, I do not think that it is so phrased that it would, but I 
wanted to be perfectly frank with the committee. Of course what- 
ever Congress should do, or whatever the committee does, I will have 
to bow to. 



20 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

The Chairman. Do you think it is good policy to have two bri- 
gade posts in Kansas, 90 miles apart? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; if they could be only 20 miles apart I 
would be a good deal better satisfied, because the nearer you get your 
troops together the more you have them under management and 
control, and it is a great advantage to have Leavenworth quite near 
Eiley, because the troops from Leavenworth can march down to 
Riley, and, with the 20,000 acres there, they can have their maneuvers 
with a body of troops quite near at hand. 

Now, as to Texas, the constitution of the post at San Antonio will 
necessitate the abandonment of quite a number of posts in Texas 
along the border to San Antonio, which under railroad communica- 
tion, is just exactly as good a point stragetically as Fort Clark, Fort 
Bliss, or Fort Brown, and with a larger force there it would be much 
easier to resist an attack from Mexico, if we are to anticipate any 
such thing. 

The Chairman. You do not propose to abandon Fort Bliss, do 
you? 

Secretary Taft. I think ultimately it will come to that. 

The Chairman. Is your extra $G8,000 to be expended there for 
barracks and quarters? 

Secretary Taft. That is to complete a contract that had been made 
before I took office. 

Mr. Slayden. Do you refer to the forts along the Rio Grande? 

Secretary Taft. Yes ; Fort Bliss is the last one. The forts on the 
Rio Grande to be abandoned are Fort Clark, Fort Ringgold, Fort 
Mcintosh, and Fort Brown. 

You have said, Mr. Chairman, that it is to cost $50,000,000 to put 
in these new improvements. Well, that is true, but you increase 
your army from 25,000 to 100,000, and it costs about a million dollars 
a thousand men to house them, so that the increase is nothing more 
than normal. 

Mr. Young. In regard to that little matter of Fort Bliss, if that is 
to be abandoned 

Secretary Taft. It would not be necessary to abandon Fort Bliss. 
The other forts are Fort Mcintosh and Fort Clark. 

Mr. Young. I understood you to say that ultimately Fort Bliss 
would be abandoned ; that it would ultimately come to that. 

Secretary Taft. I think probably it would, ultimately, but that is 
a good long time in the future. 

Now, there is Fort Assinniboine, which is the largest reservation in 
the United States; it is up on the border of Montana, near the Ca- 
nadian border, but it is a post that is old ; water is very hard to get 
there and it is so cold up there that no troops can stay there and have 
a reasonable amount of time for drill. 

The Chairman. Fort Niobrara is the next largest ; they have about 
64,000 acres. 

Secretary Taft. The largest post now, with the exception of As- 
sinniboine, is Fort Sill in Oklahoma, because that includes a forest 
reservation, and taken with the forest reservation it covers about 
100,000 acres. 

Mr. Talbott. Of course, you do not mean that it would cost a mil- 
lion dollars to house the troops ; you mean that is the first cost. You 
said it would cost a million dollars. 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 21 

Secretary Taft. I meant a million dollars to house a regiment of 
troops — that is, the erection of buildings. 

Mr. Talbott. To put up a plant? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. I do not mean to say that the system has 
not gone on with a great advantage, because I think the increase in 
these regimental posts is a great advantage to the Army. We have 
now a great many more regimental posts than we ever had before, 
and they are being increased. I would like to eke out of your regu- 
lar appropriations just enough to make some steps each year toward 
three or four brigade posts. 

Mr. Young. Mr. Secretary, have any post.-, been abandoned dur- 
ing your administration? If so, which ones? 

Secretary Taft. Fort Niobrara has been abandoned; Fort Brown 
has been abandoned, although it does not seem to have been aban- 
doned in Congress; also Fort Ringgold and Fort Clark. There you 
may remember that $700,000—1 think it was $700,000, or perhaps a 
million 

Mr. Slayden. Nearly $900,000. 

Secretary Taft. Which was appropriated to reconstruct Fort 
Clark, and we abandoned Fort Clark. I say we abandoned it; we 
left it as a military post and went over to San Antonio with the 
money and are constructing new buildings there. Now Jefferson 
Barracks, Mo., has been changed from a post to a recruiting depot, 
and Columbus, Ohio, "has been changed in the same way, and Fort 
Slocum, in New York, where we are building some additional build- 
ings for a hospital, is in the present military bill, I think, at least it 
was in the estimates. 

The Chairman. Ye.-.; we have an estimate here for Fort Slocum. 

Secretary Taft. And Fort Washakie, Wyo., has been abandoned. 

Gentlemen, we have got the posts. It is not a question of our 
selection of the places. There they are, and we are struggling to do 
what Ave can. Fort McHenry, near Baltimore, is another one, but 
that was not reasonably within your question, because that was an 
artillery post. 

Mr. Slayden. Mr. Secretary, what do you propose doing with the 
lands at these abandoned posts? The law requires you to turn them 
right over to the Department of the Interior, does it not? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; I think that might be well, but I do not 
know that the Government desires to be so generous as to turn some 
of them over to the States to be used for either charitable institutions 
or for the militia. 

Mr. Parker. We have been very much puzzled in this general bill 
about turning over posts to States, because there has been no proper 
form adopted as to the restrictions that should be imposed. Some- 
times there have been restrictions that they shall be used for certain 
purposes, but they have been put in a certain form for the military 
of the United States, as is provided. I want to ask you whether it 
would not be a good plan for a special form, containing very thorough 
provisions, to be adopted for general use, so that when a post goes 
over to a State the use can be retained by the United States, say, in 
case of war. I was especially struck with that with reference to 
Baton Rouge, which was in a right good situation for cavalry soldiers 
and for men for the Spanish war, but we have gotten rid of it. We 
could not use it any more, and we have had to camp our men in places 



22 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

that are not near so good and healthy. Tho.-e posts are r perhaps, 
more necessary in time of war. because there is where yOu can central- 
ize and cover them in. 

Secretary Taft. If a general policy of that kind is to be adopted, 
I think it would be well to put the restriction in a statute which 
would be embodied in any subsequent grant made by Congress. 

Mr. Parker. That is true. I have another question to ask and 
that is whether the War Department might not think it worth while 
to draw up a careful provision of that sort, for in many cases we 
have felt that we have passed statutes that did not contain sufficient 
provisos. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. There is another matter that I would 
like to call to your attention — I do not know whether it has already 
been called to your attention — and that is the establishment of a 
post at Key West, Fla. 

The Chairman. It would come before this committee if it related 
to the establishment of a post. 

Secretary Taft. It is not an establishment; it is a change. The 
Florida East Coast Railway is building a very great work — I mean 
great in the sense of having much commercial importance, and also 
much strategical importance to us. It is a railway from the main- 
land across the keys to Key West, and the only place where it can 
have their terminals is in the foreshore, opposite the present post 
garrison of Key West. Fort Taylor is on the other side of the key, 
and it would be much more convenient to have the post on the other 
side. Application was made to me to grant a temporary license to 
fill in that foreshore. A temporary license to fill in a foreshore is 
rather a confusion of terms, and I was not willing to grant it, al- 
though greatly interested in permitting the construction of that rail- 
way, because with it we should have a strategic point for moving 
troops to any point in the West Indies. It would be invaluable, and 
we could use the buildings of that post for a warehouse. 

The Chairman. Suppose you send up a bill relating to that matter, 
and it will come before this committee. I do not know of any ob- 
jection to it on earth with your statement. 

Secretary Taft. It destroj^s our post for the purpose of repairs, 
and we would have to buy land on the other side of the key and erect 
a post there for the Coast Artillery that man the guns of Fort Taylor. 

Mr. Parker. Would not the railroad company offer to buy the 
land in consideration of getting itself established ? 

Secretary Taft. The railroad can not offer to pay us for what we 
have there. We have buildings that are worth — or were when they 
were erected — about $400,000, and I think it would be more econom- 
ical for the Government to retain those and use that as a warehouse, 
or as a storehouse, which we could use should emergency arise, rather 
than turn it over to the railroad and ask them to give us something 
in exchange. 

Mr. Parker. They are going to get some of the shore for their ter- 
minal. 

Mr. Talbott. You are merely giving the right of way to the rail- 
road company. 

Secretary Taft. No; that will take up the foreshore. It is a 
doubtful question whether we own the foreshore. Of course we can 
control their filling up because it is a part of the power of the Sec- 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 23 

retary of War with reference to navigation, but it is so important a 
change that I did not feel like making it without authority. 

Mr. Burke. Under existing law what is the temporary 'disposition 
of these army lands ? 

Secretary Taft. If any land ceases to be useful for military pur- 
pose, I turn it over to the Secretary of the Interior. 

Mr. Young. Mr. Secretary, before you leave I wish to pursue this 
matter a little further with regard to the terminal. Is that of suf- 
ficient value to the railroad company to justify them in buying this 
other land in exchange? 

Secretary Taft. Do you mean the foreshore? 

Mr. Young. Yes; the foreshore and all the rights that you propose 
to give them there. 

Secretary Taft. I would not give them any rights at all except the 
right to fill in and use that as a terminal — the filled part. I would 
not transfer the Government property there at all; I would like to 
retain that. 

General Bell. May I state that the railroad company disputes 
the right of the United States to the foreshore under the laws of 
Florida and made so good a presentation of their case that the Sec- 
retary of War was very doubtful whether the United States Gov- 
ernment has any right to the foreshore. 

Secretary Taft. That is it. The United States has the right to 
give access either through the power of controlling navigation or 
otherwise. 

The Chairman. The matter of access would be a very important 
thing to give, and they ought to be willing to give something to have 
it settled. 

Secretary Taft. I suppose they have a pretty heavy expenditure, 
and they are not asking the Government for anything. I would be 
very glad to be generous with them and encourage the improvement, 
for it is one of the most important improvements now going on in 
this country. 

General Bell. From a strategical point of view. 

Secretary Taft. And from a commercial point of view. Anyone 
who has been to Cuba, either by way of Tampa or Newport News, for 
instance, will understand the advantage of being able to go by rail 
within 99 miles of Habana, but it is, of course, a very expensive work 
building a railroad in the sea, for that is what it amounts to. 

Mr. Burke. On that point, as it refers to a matter that is to be laid 
before you this week and which comes up directly in this discussion, 
there are about 30 acres, say, in the city of Pittsburg that they pro- 
pose to abandon. As to the temporary disposition of that, there was 
some notion in existence that you had authority to grant a revocable 
license, say to the city of Pittsburg, to keep that property in repair 
and return it to the Government on demand. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; I have. 

Mr. Burke. There is such authority existing in the War Depart- 
ment ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; and to impose a reasonable rent; but I 
have the power to make a revocable lease for five years, I think it is, 
under the statute of any property that is unimproved and under the 
control of the War Department. But a revocable license to put up a 



24 HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 

railway embankment and fill up a foreshore seem to me to be straining 
one's authority. 

Mr. Burke. The situation there is surrounded by a working dis- 
trict, and it is really criminal the contrast that exists outside of those 
walls. Practically the walls are going to pieces, especially as to the 
5 acres that were turned over to the Treasury Department, and lives 
have been endangered by reason of the condition of the walls. That 
great place there is within reach of those people, but they can not use 
it simply because of the walls that are there. 

Secretary Taft. Can you not get Congress to give it to the city of 
Pittsburg? 

Mr. Burke. We thought that was a pretty bold proposition. We 
thought we could get them for a certain time under this revocable 
license. 

Mr. Parker. You stated that there was a forest reservation near 
Fort Sill, which makes it about 100,000 acres. 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Parker. Is it not true that it is very difficult to get room for 
artillery practice and artillery maneuvering at Fort Riley, where 
there are only twenty-odd thousand acres? 

Secretary Taft. I would not say that. 

Mr. Parker. I was under that impression. 

Secretary Taft. Of course, if you get a modern artillery officer, 
or a modern, up-to-date maneuvering officer, he would like to have 
a whole State to maneuver in: but the truth is they are able to do 
very good maneuvering there. 

Mr. Parker. Is it not proper and right that this forest reservation 
should be in some way made subject to the rights of the War Depart- 
ment, so that there would not be any distribution of this other tract 
of land ? 

Secretary Taft. It is already so arranged that we can use it; there 
is no trouble about that at Fort Sill. 

Mr. Parker. But what I desired to say is that it should not be dis- 
posed of without the action of the Military Committee, so that they 
would have something to say about it. 

Secretary Taft. I see the point, 

Mr. Parker. It could not be made a part of the military reser- 
vation ? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir ; it might be. I say it might be ; I think 
they might turn it over to us. Of course, they are experimenting 
with our trees. Now, our occupation of it would not hurt the trees. 

Mr. Parker. Would it be possible to pass a bill which would trans- 
fer that forest reservation to the militant reservation, subject to its 
use by the Agriculture Department for testing trees ? 

Secretary Taft. You have now opened a subject that perhaps I 
might say something about. In those western reservations it would 
be of very great assistance if the Secretary and I together, or the 
Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Interior together, with 
the approval of the President, could piece out and round out mili- 
tary reservations by exchanging lands for homestead settlements 
within the territory that we wished to make part of the military 
reservation — I mean exchange section for section. Some sections are 
taken up that ought to be part of the military reservation, and if 
we could go into another part of the public domain and by agreement, 



HEARING ON ARTILLERY BILL. 25 

with the approval of the President, exchange the one for the other it 
would enable us without the expenditure of money at all to enlarge 
and round out the military reservations to a great advantage. 

Mr. Parker. And also would it not be an advantage that in these 
days of large maneuvers there should be at least one set of grants that 
would have enough ground to be free from settlement by putting 
some under the War Department, as well as the control of those large 
forest reserves? 

Secretary Taft. Yes, sir; I would like to see that done. But, so 
far as the forest reserves are concerned, with the President at the 
head, there is no trouble about retaining the forest reservations for 
military reservations if they are available for that. 

Mr. Parker. A bill on that subject was referred to the Secretary 
of War instead of to the Secretary of the Interior? 

Secretary Taft. Yes. I tried to get it into this committee. It is 
a question of jurisdiction. 

Mr. Parker (acting chairman). Does General Bell desire to make 
any remarks? 

General Bell. No, Mr. Parker. You asked me to put on the rec- 
ord what I stated to you. You raised the question with regard to 
dissatisfaction which would be created in the infantry and cavalry 
by the extraordinary promotion which would be given to artillery 
officers, and I stated that if the Coast Artillery were divided from the 
Field Artillery it would very rarely come in contact with the infantry 
and cavalry in such a manner as to cause dissatisfaction, and that 
the smallness of the Field Artillery as compared with the infantry 
and cavalry, and their being stationed at a very few posts, would 
reduce to a minimum any dissatisfaction that might exist because 
some of the younger officers of the Field Artillery had been promoted 
over the heads of their comrades in the cavalry. 

The committee thereupon adjourned, to meet on notice. 

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